Episode 0011: Tsherin Sherpa on bringing Thangka & the art of Nepal to the contemporary art world transcript

Kendall Guillemette (KG): Hello everybody, thank you for joining us. today on the show we have Tsherin Sherpa, who is a Nepalese artist who currently has a show up at the Honolulu Museum of Art through January 2027. And I’m so excited to have Tsherin on the show.

Tsherin Sherpa (TS): Okay.

KG: I’m not super familiar with the art from your region. And so I’m very curious and I have so many questions. So Tsherin, thank you so much for joining us today.

TS: And thank you for having me. Thank you.

KG: you were born in Nepal and you grew up there,

TS: Yes.

KG: And so in your art training, you started your training as like apprentice your father, can you talk about how that happened and and what that was like for you?

TS: I was born here in Nepal and Nepal also has like various different how do you say communities and we happen to my parents happen to come from the mountainous region, so like the Sherpas from the Himalayan region. And my parents are. Buddhists. So it’s closer to the closer to Tibet through the Himalayan region. So the culturally it’s very very similar to Tibetan culture. and the Buddhism that we practice is also Tibetan Buddhism. And I was born into this family. My father happens to be a traditional Tibetan Thangka painter meaning like. The Thangkas are traditional Tibetan paintings, religious paintings. These are for meditation practices and like very strongly the subject matter is very much about Buddhism and path to enlightenment, etc. so growing up in that family, when I was about 13 years old, my father saw some drawing skills that I had. So he felt that it was time for him to pass down this tradition over to me and being the oldest son and also with some drawing skills. So he decided like so that was like my father also learned from his uncle, maternal uncle. So I’m kind of like the third generation within the family, continuing this tradition. Yeah.

KG: Is that typically how that tradition and art form is passed down through in a family situation or are there other means to to kind of train or pass that on?

TS: Yeah, it’s it’s also passed down within the family, or also sometimes apprentices like from different parts of the Himalayan region would come to a master and then you know study with them, study with the master for a number of years. the basic formal training takes about five years. I started it when I was around 13 and then started learning all the. Different iconographies, symbolism, and like drawing techniques. It’s kind of like you’re repeating what your master has provided you, a sample drawing or something, and you you copy that over and over for months and months until it becomes kind of like your second nature, you know. So then you it’s very naturally without having to think about it. You you just so it’s a very eastern kind of training technique.

And so that was that was the tradition I was trained in. And for for about five years and then after that I skipped my formal training for a few years to go to Taiwan and I was studying computer science and a little bit of Mandarin over there. and then after several years, I think like three or four years, I came back and resumed assisting my father on many of the monastery mural projects and painting projects. So assisted him for another five years or so. And in ninety eight I left for the US and I landed in California. So and I was also employed by a Buddhist center in California. So I was working for them as their resident traditional Tibetan Thangka artist as well as instructor for some of the students there. so the subject matter in this tradition is all about like Buddhism. it’s like the mandalas that we see, and you know, iconographies of deities and basically this whole practice is about like you know about searching for enlightenment, I guess. And it’s it’s a practice of meditation basically.

KG: You’re in Nepal, you’re doing this training with your father, and then you’re. Move to Taiwan to study computer science feels like a abrupt and dramatic shift and change. What brought that about?

TS: Yeah, well actually I think when I was growing up, I never wanted to be a traditional Thangka painter.

So I had all the drawing skills and everything. And I used to basically copy these posters that we used to get at that time, of flowers and you know, it’s kind of like a chart that was so popular in in Nepal at that time, like about like pictures of birds and flowers and fruits and I I used to actually try to copy those images and also I started coming across it was like early 80s that started coming across some images like from comic books, Basically two-dimensional like style, flat style, where there is like I think we we used to have a lot of comic books that were published in India and it was like comics on mythologies, like the Indian mythologies and you know, deities with speech bubble and then communicating and all all kinds of stuff like that.

So at home I was get getting this training on traditional, very strict, rigid meditational paintings. But at the same time, in the popular culture around me, I would see these comics and also gradually I started meeting like visitors from the US and different parts of the world. Then I started seeing other comic books like Tintin. and Asterix and Marvel and DC and all of these like were we were consuming it as I was growing up at the same time.

KG: That time, did it influence you artistically, like or was was there a fairly strict separation between your Thangka painting and that side of your life and your exposure to popular culture, comics, all of that stuff. Was there a separation or was that integrated at all at this point?

TS: Not integrated. It was strictly very, very separate. And so I had I was probably living like two lives. one hanging out with my friends and then consuming all of this like popular culture, but at the same time at home, like very strict, rigid training on traditional Buddhist paintings, you know. and after my five-year formal training, I found out there is a scholarship program in Taiwan. And I just it it was an escape. Like I I didn’t want to study computer science or anything, but I just found that was that was the only scholarship program. So I immediately grabbed it and then left for Taiwan. And I just wanted to get away from Nepal, I guess, and the training overload of that training, you know, which was very, very strict. And also because like a when you’re learning from your father then it’s even more like difficult.

KG: Yeah, I’m sure. I’m sure. It and then your your time in Taiwan, obviously culturally there’s a difference there. Do you have then more access to popular culture in the broader world of popular culture? Is was that a draw or was that a like just a something that happened there or or that was like was that part of the ticket out of of Nepal? Like was that a part of it for you?

TS: Yeah, it was kind of interesting, like being there. I mean, that was my first visit abroad anywhere. So being in Taiwan, like being in a different place, learning the language, the culture, and also yeah, seeing broader side of, you know, the popular culture, even in Taiwan itself. And I I think it was a very educational and very more of a learning process for me. computer I was just studying the basics and like you know debase plus one two three etc the very basic things and then later on like after three years in Taiwan I I felt I needed to come back to Nepal and because the only skill that I had was again the my training of Thangka painting. I started like assisting my father in multiple projects like painting monastery murals and Thangkas and like I said earlier, because you practice it so rigorously that it becomes your second nature. So it was very smooth like you know, coming back to doing this again. And assisting my father and I I thought it was I wasn’t really excited to do this, but I had no choice. So I was continuing to do this. And eventually I had the opportunity. I one of my mom’s friend who was a Fulbright scholar here in California here in Nepal from California. So she said like if you’re so because I was always very curious about the West. Used to ask a lot of questions, and I was very inquisitive, I guess.

And she thought, like, maybe you should come visit me in California for a few months, you know. So she invited me to Sausalitc in California, and I landed in California, and immediately I think there were some Buddhist monasteries in California that found out there is a traditionally trained Thangka painter who’s here in the Bay Area. So. I got a job offer immediately and I got employed and I just ended up staying in California.

KG: Is that typical for like again, just showing that how like how much I don’t know about monasteries and in in in that culture, but is that typical for a like a Buddhist monastery or center or something like that to have s like a Thangka painter, or is that something that would be considered a luxury or something that would be like. Abnormal or is that something that every every place has?

TS: I think the problem is there is already very few number of Thangka painters who are able to travel to the US or Canada or abroad. And these centers are definitely looking for traditional Thangka artists because they have there’s a lot of like objects or paintings, these are painted for rituals and different practices, you know. So if they have their resident Thangka artists, then it’s really wonderful. But if they don’t, then they actually import these traditional paintings from Nepal or from India or from even even from Tibet. So in my case, I was very lucky because I was already there and they ended up like hiring me as their resident artist and and the the the. A group of students who were studying in these Buddhist centers were also interested in learning traditional Thangka painting techniques because these images are used for meditation practice and for visualizing these images, etc. And so I ended up like organizing classes for them and then teaching them. But simultaneously, that also gave me the opportunity to interact with many other artists. And for the first time, I was also visiting museums. unlike in the US, like in Nepal at that time we didn’t have any art museums. so that gave me the opportunity to see many different forms of art. in the Bay Area. So I used to frequently visit these museums and art galleries and also started meeting like other artists who were studying or who were teaching or who were practicing their art practices.

And because I didn’t go to a conventional art school, so I had to learn everything from. From the scratch, meaning like it was the first time I learned about like, there’s art history, you know, there’s art theory, there’s art like this and that, and how how many different types of arts are there,

KG: you you had a very deep understanding of the art form that you were trained in, but what you’re saying is you didn’t have much beyond that. Like you had both historical and tactile understanding of the art form that you did, but beyond that you didn’t have as much other context. And so this was your introduction to that, is that right?

TS: Exactly. Absolutely. Yes. And I think even within the art world, like I think I knew of Picasso I’d heard of Picasso, Salvador Dali, a few artists like Leonardo da Vinci, etc. And that was about it. being there in the Bay Area and interacting with all of these artists and becoming friends with them. actually helped me to study, you know, sort of like a crash course on art history and everything. And also how artists display their work and work with the galleries and museums. And so that was my first encounter or to understand like how this works. Luckily, I think in 2003 I was invited by the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco in San Francisco, and they had this unique program. They were trying to celebrate different artistic traditions within Asia. So they had this one residency program, it was called Asia Alive, and I was the first. artists that they invited and my job was to be there at the museum for about six hours a day live demonstration on like Thangka painting and the audiences would be around me and so that that was the residency program and it was a month-long program and within that month. Somebody had visited me when I was demonstrating, I guess. And the person had reached out to the museum, and turns out like they were from Jamba Juice and they were looking for an artist to do a mock-up of Thangka painting for advertisement for their new drink, which was called Enlightened Smoothie or something.

Well, like a one-fourth less calorie or whatever it was called. So and They actually approached me and they said, like, would you do three marketing posters for us? instead of the deity in the center, we would put Jamba Juice cup and then you know the logo and everything, and then all the ingredient that goes into the juice is like spread at the bottom, like in a. Thangka, traditional Thangka.

So actually they approached me and then I was excited because I always wanted to do something beyond traditional Thangkas. I just didn’t have that opportunity before, and this was a wonderful opportunity. And I did that project, and that sort of was my first ever experiment outside of traditional Thangka painting after my training, you know.

KG: So like using the like you said, kind of style iconography that you were trained in in a dramatically different subject matter for sure, but also like just even conceptually very different. The point of the painting is not meditation. It’s not, you know, it’s it’s commerce. It’s it’s selling Jamba Juice. I one question I wanna circle back to. You talked about. Thangka painting as a meditative practice. is is that something and and maybe it’s all of the above, but is it is it meditative in your creation of the Thangka painting as as the artist? Is it something that a is it like a Buddhist practitioner?

TS: Exactly. Both. It’s it’s actually the the process of Thangka painting is also supposed to be meditative.

And also for the Buddhist practitioner, these iconographies are kind of like a layout of the map for you know, stages of enlightenment, basically. So

KG: Okay. So without trying to explain to me all of those things, probably beyond the scope of this conversation. But so if I was experiencing that and I was a Buddhist practitioner, I would that would be like you said, I think a map to help me in my meditation and enlightenment and those types of things. Okay, that makes sense. That’s cool. Thank you for explaining that.

TS: Exactly. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. So yes, and then after doing Jamba Juice it was like a complete hundred and eighty degree different approach, you know, because then I…

KG: Was that instantly? Like instantly you did that work for Jamba Juice and then you were like, this opened the door to a whole nother realm of self expression and is that how that worked?

TS: nNo, it it was kind of like a very small taste only because at that time I was still painting traditional Thangkas for Buddhist practitioners, for monasteries, and I was also teaching classes simultaneously, but it was a wonderful experience and also to see that how broader and wider the reach was through these the non let’s say non-sacred art. I remember I think it was a campaign in 50 states within the US and so every shop every Jamba Juice outlet that I walked into they had these posters and then like you know the bus stop. And airports and these big banners, and it was kind of a really interesting phenomena for me to experience.

KG: Yeah, what feelings did that bring up kind of historically the work that you had done was experienced, like you said, in a very sacred environment where now, like you say, it’s a bus stop, it’s in a store. Like how did that feel for you as as someone who had such a a long, lifelong tradition of your work being in a sacred context? What did that feel like for you?

TS: Exactly.

It was it was actually because I felt it was much more freeing for me. because in the from the very beginning I was not very attracted to the sacred form of art. And there there I think there’s a story behind that too, is because like when I was growing up, I used to hear a lot of stories. About masters from even before my father’s generation, how these artists were highly revered by big monasteries and communities and everything. But when I was growing up in the late 70s and early 80s, all of these sacred objects were becoming commodified to the point where. you would see a traditional Thangka painting either in a monastery or in a souvenir shop, you know. So nothing in between. And I guess I was always more attracted for it to be appreciated in a different level, in a different form, you know.

KG: Because it was broader, just taking the example you gave, in a souvenir shop, it’s accessible to anyone, whereas in a monastery, it’s not as accessible. Is that what what the draw was?

TS: I think I didn’t know what I was looking for until I actually landed at the museum in San Francisco. Then I saw, this is the place. Like it is neither very, very commercial nor very, very inaccessible. Somewhere it has its own space, but at the same time, it is also highly respected as an art form. So I guess I was looking for that, but I had no clue. There is something like that exists. Exactly.

KG: You didn’t know what you were looking for until you found it. Yeah. Got it. Okay.

TS: So I still remember the first time the same museum which invited me to do the demonstration program. right after I landed in San Francisco, I actually went to this museum with some of my other student friends. And. I thought I’ll see some very interesting artworks. And I remember paying the entrance fee, I think it was like $10 or something. And then for me, $10 was a lot of money back then. As as someone who just arrived from Nepal.

So I walk in expecting something really, really interesting to see. And the first thing that I saw in the museum was a big traditional Thangka. And it struck me like for a few seconds like did I come to did I pay this much money just to see this?

KG: I’ve seen this before. Right. Right.

TS: Like you know but I remember that day I spent the whole day at the museum and I was going through everything and. For the first time I noticed like there were really amazing, thick, very you know in very l exciting looking catalogs published by different universities like Harvard, Yale, Oxford and so many museums and scholars who had written so much about these traditional Thangka paintings and the traditions and everything. And this was so fascinating for me to see that because I had never experienced that back home in Nepal. The only thing that I had yeah. In a temple, like in a monastery where we actually do prayers and you know the rituals and stuff, or in a very, very common souvenir shop who would do like all of these like very traditional Thangkas but done in very very factory setup with large number of like workers working in assembly line just to you know cater it to the tourists so

KG: Yeah. So is it the exposure to Thangka painting in a academic or like a scholarly way versus experiencing Thangka painting in a sacred, spiritual or even as a practitioner, like someone who was making the paintings, like that was just a different view and was was that the different catalogs that you mentioned. The ones that you mentioned were all are all Western. Is there scholarship that is not Western that was included there or was the scholarship typically Western?

TS: No, actually, it was these scholars who had gone to Nepal or Tibet or India to study with the Buddhist monks, and then they were because I never learned Tibetan or the Buddhist scriptures very well, because I went to a normal Nepali school here, and the only accessible language for me was. English or Nepali. So when you were when I was able to read these books and catalogues, then I could like totally understand what it is. Where in the monasteries, these are all written in like Tibetan language and which was inaccessible for me. So I knew how to paint, I knew the symbolism, whatever I was taught by my father. But apart from that, like. I didn’t see it in an academic way like I was seeing in the West.

KG: Right.

TS: So yeah. So that that gave me the opportunity and opened my eyes, like, wow, this is something really valuable and appreciated in a broader sense, you know. So that was the experience.

KG: So prior to that prior to that you did not have that kind of internal understanding that the thing that you had done your whole life was something that was respected, revered, studied, all of those types of things. interesting.

TS: Yes, yes, absolutely not. And then after that, like yes, the Jamba juice project, and then and then there was a gap. Like I was still like continuing to teach classes, but with little more respect towards the tradition and also understanding. but later on what happened was I think right around 2004, five. I started seeing multiple exhibitions in different museums in the Bay Area. And I remember very well there was one exhibition titled Mahjong which was the Contemporary Art from China. And then there was another s exhibition in San Jose at a museum which was contemporary art from South Asia. And these two exhibitions were strongly, strongly influential for my practice because I didn’t grow up in the West, so I had disconnect in understanding or decoding the artwork, you know. Like for example, I would see a Campbell soup by Warhol, and it it didn’t mean anything to me at all.

Because culturally I was so disconnected that I didn’t understand what was going on. Whereas when I saw because I lived in Taiwan for some years and also understood because Nepal lies right between China and India. And I we were growing up with all these influences of like I was saying earlier about Indian comic books and. Popular culture that was seeped into Nepal so strongly. And also because I had been in Taiwan, I understood the Chinese history a little bit and then the culture. And so I could completely relate to these contemporary works and expressions by these Chinese artists and Indian and Pakistani and Bangladesh Sri Lankan artists, you know. so. That’s and also there’s one tradition in India which is miniature painting, which is kind of like the Persian miniature and Indian miniature is very similar. And the technique is very similar to Thangka painting. And I saw one artist who had used traditional techniques to convey contemporary concerns. even within the Chinese tradition, there’s like traditional calligraphy. work that is done and this artist had used that technique to convey like contemporary concern in a with a different subject matter

KG: Yeah.

TS: you know so that actually gave me so much how do you say inspiration to say like wow I know this technique now how can I communicate with the world about not necessarily sacred subject matter, but about like, you know, social issues, personal issues, identity. I don’t know, it could be like so many other things, political issues, even yeah.

KG: So Yeah, so I just want to kind of get a timestamp on that. You’re that you’re like at that point mid thirties. Is that right?

TS: Yes. Yes. Early thirties. Yeah.

KG: Through your training started at thirteen, you’d been doing this art form for twenty years and only then did you have a path for self expression and kind of like you said, like using the the art form that you knew and lived every day to talk about things that were important to you and things that matter to you and and so that’s so fascinating.

TS: That is true. Cause by the time I had already like had this habit of visiting museums and galleries and art shows, and I noticed that everyone was talking about issues around you know, surrounding us, meaning like talking about humanity, talking about like identity, talking about so many issues. And I felt like then I realized like. Where I come from, within this Himalayan, let’s say the Himalayan region, I’ve found out like that there has never been that kind of secular form of art before.

KG: Yeah.

TS: Cause the only art form we were familiar with was all about yeah you know Buddhism and then religious iconography, things like that.

KG: So at this time, early thirties, Through your life, did you identify as an artist or did you identify as a Thangka painter?

TS: So, yes, that was the dilemma. Before that, I was like considering myself as a Thangka painter. but later on, like once I got exposed to all of these, then I started thinking like maybe I want to explore something beyond traditional subject matter so that you know I can also communicate with the audiences in a broader sense, you know. So that’s when I started. experimenting few things in my own. I was also self-educating myself. I used to buy a bunch of books on like what is contemporary art, you know, like whatnot and everything. And but I was always very intimidated a little bit and also reluctant to actually share my works with the public because I felt I lacked my education in terms of going to a conventional art school. But and at one point I was also thinking of going to an art school and there was one art professor friend from Chicago and she actually said like you have a very unique perspective. You might as well not go to an art school, you know, you you should you should just continue what you are doing and then you might find your pathway.

KG: Yeah.

TS: And I ended up doing that and sometime around 2008-2009, I found out like finally I was able to share some of my works with the museum curator at the Asian art museum in San Francisco and then she introduced me to a gallery in New York and then that’s and then after that like yeah, I guess I became an artist. Yes.

KG: Yeah. Is that something that you identify as? Like is or like yeah. So and and that kind of started then you started to say, this is kind of this is this is who I am?

TS: Exactly.

KG: So let’s maybe move into some like talking about the work that you’ve done. because as we’ve talked about a little bit, there is a bit of fusion between traditional Thangka painting and. And. Buddhist iconography with pop culture.

TS: Yes.

KG: What types of thing and you also mentioned starting to talk about or think about expressing your thoughts and concerns about the world and and that kind of thing. What types of things did that start with? What themes did you explore? some of the first things that you started exploring and how has that evolved as you’ve kind of progressed through your work.

TS: I think in the beginning I was very nostalgic of like growing up here in Nepal and cause I was away from the fam family and I was all by myself and also you know you are trying to constantly draw inspiration from your childhood memories, etc. And cause you’re away and trying to assimilate in this new new place. And so I was awarded a residency program in Vermont. like there’s a place called Vermont Studio Center. And it’s a place where there are like at least 100 artists and writers all come together and stay there for like two months or so. And that was a really wonderful opportunity for me to actually be there, engage with other artists and writers. thinkers and that sort of like allowed me to explore the ideas and the first thing I wanted to draw inspiration was from this region of course because I was constantly missing home and having to be away from family and then I was this my my grandmother when I was quite young used to tell us a lot of stories about spirits, these spirits who reside in the mountains and valleys and nature, you know, so and we have this tradition of worshipping these spirits the local spirits so I was like I was imagining like what happens to the spirits if people like myself from that particular region were to move on and to go. To different places, will the spirits follow them? Or, you know, what is a spirit in in in you know, conceptually? And for me it it was kind of like a collective mental attitude or collective mental phenomena that we create. And so if I were traveling, I’m sure the spirit travels with me too. And I wanted to draw a parallel between my own experiences and then imagining the spirit following me and maybe creating narrating my own story through the spirit, you know,

KG: Yeah.

TS: how spirit is having difficulty trying to assimilate in this new environment, like culturally and then. So many different things. For example, I remember when I first landed in the US, I remember going to a supermarket to buy milk, you know. and I was standing in front of the fridge and I see like half and half, two percent, non-fat and then vitamin D. And I’m like, where where is the milk?

KG: Yeah, which one do I want?

TS: In Nepal like there’s only one type of milk and it’s written “milk”.

KG: Yeah, milk. That’s it. Yeah, it’s interesting. I spent some time a summer in Prague and didn’t know the language, anything. And so go to the grocery store and like looking again, I think I was looking for cheese and I can’t read any of the labels. I don’t like I know nothing what they mean. So I see a picture of a cow. And it’s like this could be cheese, this could be milk, this could be, you know, like sour cream. I have no idea what it is, but it I’m pretty sure it comes from a cow. So yeah, that that is such a like a disorienting thing.

TS: Or even like stepping into a Starbucks for the first time, like having. The person behind the counter is asking, what what would you like? And I see all these names and I have no idea what it is. You know, like I I just wanted coffee and I don’t know. I don’t know anything about Frappuccino Macchiato. So that kind of experience, like it’s for someone like myself coming from this region and going abroad and trying to assimilate in these like little things, you know, difficulties and culturally like everything is so opposing. Unlike today, now nowadays, like a young kid from Nepal can easily associate or find themselves easily in in New York and they know how to navigate because we have social media and we have so much information like instantaneous information all over the place.

Back then, like I used to write postcards to my family, right? Which takes about like 15 days to get here. So so at that time I think yeah very nostalgic about my childhood memories and then home everything. So my spirit started becoming my kind of like my alter ego, this character that I started creating and which resembles a little bit like a Buddhist deity, but it’s not really a deity. It looks a little like human. and then encountering all of these new phenomena, as well as I used to listen to a lot of news, like I used to listen to NPR a lot at that time. in my studio whenever I’m painting and then hearing all these informations and news and that would actually get reflected in my work, you know. So yeah. So that’s that was how it all started.

KG: Yeah. well, it’s interesting. I like in some of the different work that I’ve looked at and seen, and then also over your shoulder, I’m not sure if that’s a piece of yours or not, but butterflies show up a lot.

TS: Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

KG: In the Western world, butterflies kind of signify change, metamorphosis, growth, evolution, those kinds of things. Is that similar in in your culture?

TS: Yes. in our like traditional paintings, there’s no butterflies. I yeah, interestingly. So I adopted it like you know, I I wanted to incorporate that into my work. and yes, metamorphosis, I guess. I’m again like seeing myself as the butterfly who keeps on changing its form. you know, for example, Being born in Nepal and like I said earlier, there’s I think thirty-six different dialects within Nepal, even a small country with like thirty-six different types of people and we are considered like from the mountainous region, which is the most remote area, and I was probably the first in my whole family lineage to go to a conventional school. My parents never went to school.

So I they they actually came and how do you say settled down in Katmandu, the the capital, and then they sent me to school. I w I was their oldest child and then sent me to a regular school, you know. And so then you had this difficulty. Trying to assimilate because you speak a different language and then you don’t speak the mainstream Nepali language at that time. so and I was constantly trying to learn the ways, the culture, the language to actually assimilate myself so that you become invisible, you know. Otherwise, like in school you’re you get bullied and this and that.

So that is always there. Yeah. So I always had this urge to learn and transform immediately so that you blend in. And I think I think it’s kinda like butterfly where from egg to larva to pupa, you keep on changing your form.

KG: You’ve talked about assimilating a lot and blending in and those kinds of things, but I also see the path that you’ve chosen is so non-traditional from where you come from.

TS: Yeah.

KG: like you said, first at a standard more conventional school, move to the US, you’re an artist, you’re you’re taking this sacred art form. And you’re kind of putting your own contemporary spin on it. So in a lot of ways I hear you saying assimilate, but then I also hear you talking about how you’re completely standing out and very different from certainly your own familial tradition and and regional tradition. And so that’s like a it very interesting juxtaposition to me.

TS: Absolutely. I think when I found my communication tool, which is the art form, I felt this is through which I can communicate with the audience in a in a you know wider sense. But me as an individual, I’m always trying to assimilate. So I think maybe the artwork is communicating. on a different level, but as myself, like I’m always trying to be invisible, maybe hiding behind the artwork or something.

KG: That makes so much sense. and so just like kind of pulling on that thread a little bit as well, like because your path has been so kind of outside the norm for your culturally in your family, all of those things, has that created any sort of strain within your family? Like obviously your father is this traditional Thangka painter, and and you’ve taken that art form and and brought your contemporary spin on it. Has that created any sort of strain there or in your broader community or even within yourself?

TS: It was interesting. We had this conversation recently in in California also. Had I not been in California, probably I wouldn’t be able to do what I’m doing today. Because the tradition and everything is so strongly rooted here. And because I was away from my family and also. Unlike today, we didn’t have Zoom or you know phone calls. You’re you’re so disconnected for months and years, I I would say. I hadn’t come back to Nepal for a long time. So that gave me the opportunity and the courage to actually explore something beyond the tradition. Later on, I found out, like by the time when I started working with the gallery, I found out there were a group of artists dispersed in different places who also were probably trained in Thangka painting, just like myself. So this gallery that I started working with actually had connections with the artists in Tibet, in Lhasa. He had started working with them and their works were also kind of similar like mine, because we were all thinking alike simil at that around the same time. So sometimes I would come across another artist in Switzerland, let’s say Nepali Tibetan artist who’s born or brought up in Switzerland, some someone in New York, someone in. Australia, you know, like so it was very, very interesting. I think that kind of we shared the similar kind of experience and almost all of us were from the same generation. And it was much later we found out like there were these things happening in many parts of the world.

KG: So now let’s maybe fast forward a little bit. I know that in your work and as you’ve kind of established yourself and in your doing more work, that you’ve collaborated with other artists, artisans in your region or from your region. Can you talk about why that came about, why that’s important to you?

TS: Okay. I was living in the US constantly for some time and in 2015 there was a major earthquake in Nepal. so I came back because my father and my parents were here. So I came back and to be with them because there were lots of aftershocks that were coming and people were literally living outside their home in tents for months and actually i came back just to be closer to them and i had been disconnected with the the local art community for a long time when i came back and i started like mingling with the local traditional artisans like or artists like traditional Thangka painters traditional bronze artists. Then I found out their their situation was pretty much the same when I left. it’s again these two different platforms, either monastery, temple, or the souvenir shop, you know, nothing in between. So I felt like wow, this is something that I had experienced like so many years ago. And by that time, by 2015. I was showing like in multiple venues all over Asia, Europe, America, and then I felt maybe their work also needs to be seen. Because many of the traditional artists were leaving Nepal and they would I would come across many of them. I was so lucky that I found my path, whereas I met many other Thangka painters driving Uber, working in restaurants, you know, like just continuing to do that and give up the traditional practice altogether. then I felt like maybe in order to continue this tradition, we need to have a different platform. And so that’s when I started approaching these artists and said like told them like maybe we could do some collaboration. I can come up with this contemporary you know configuration or you know like contemporary way to present it but the skill set the traditional skill set is still there and that’s why and that’s how I started working with. And then that has given them the opportunity to s showcase their you know skill set also. Like one major venue that I wanted to showcase this tradition, it was kind of like introduction to Nepal and its tradition in some ways. I was selected as the first artist to represent Nepal at the Venice Biennale in 2022. And this was the first Nepal Pavilion ever.

And what I did was I actually collaborated with a bronze artist, I collaborated with other Thangka painters and collaborated with the carpet weavers because we have a longstanding like history of carpet making here in in Nepal too. And I thought these three traditions were somehow diminishing year by year. The younger generation are not attracted because it just like myself, they’re you know, they’re they’re always trying to escape it and then do something else. And but but when your work is appreciated and. When your work is appreciated on a different level, you know, not just commercial, but also institutionally, like in the museums or, you know, like universities or whatever, it it gives them a lot of comfort and encouragement to continue their practice.

KG: It seems like that path is also introduced like for you in your own practice, having assistants or apprentices, is that something like that’s a practice that you have now, so like there are folks who apprentice under you or study under you as you’re making your work now?

TS: Yes. So we have a team of like for painting, we have a team of fifteen artists all together. at one point I was telling you earlier about the commodification of traditional Thangka painting. So in the eighties and late nineties also, what happened was many of the Thangka factories were were established here. Solely for the purpose of commerce. And artists were trained only in one skill set. So either you’re a painter or someone who does the detailing or some assembly line, you know, completely. So many of the artists who wants to like they happen to come from remote areas and they would come to Katmandu, apprentice with some teacher. And they want to immediately send money home to support their families. So they would rather study one section of the whole. Unlike me, because my father, I was very lucky because my father was my teacher. So he actually taught me the whole thing, which takes about five years. But these artists would go and study just the paint application or, you know, blending of the two colors, or there are many different parts within the Thangka painting. also. So they would learn one section and get stuck with that forever because they’re they start immediately working for other people. So when I came back to Nepal in 2015, I started like meeting these artists and I when I asked them like because I was hoping like to have at least one or two assistants to help me. And when I found out they only know this section or that section and I was very surprised ‘Cause at my time, like it was learning the whole thing.

So then I thought, like, maybe I will hire them, but at the same time also train them so that they can learn all these techniques so that in the future, if they were to go away also they’ll have this skill set, you know. So yeah. Yeah.

KG: Full skill set. That’s so cool. And then in 2023 you established a gallery or participated in establishing a gallery. Is that in Katmandu?

TS: Yes, it’s in Katmandu. So what happened was when I came back I started like making friends with all the local artists here and then they knew of me nowadays, like because of internet and the social media, they knew like I’m the most probably the most visible artist internationally from this region. And they were like, we have so much expectation, you need to do something here. And and the thing was like when I learned that we have three three art schools, not traditional Thangka painting, but the typical art school. We have three art schools here and from each art school I think there’s like at least 40 students graduating every year. And so it’s like 120 artists, but we have no places to show their work. when I came back actually there were like I think seven or eight art galleries at that time and they had it was impossible for many of the artists to get the opportunity to showcase their works. And most of the galleries were also very commercially driven galleries, and their objective is to make money off of the artist. So they would rather choose popular artists which sell easily than those recently graduated ones. And so we decided my wife and I decided like we should start something. in our own and then maybe have like give opportunity for those who actually don’t get to showcase their work much more and i was very fortunate because where we have the gallery the building owner is a friend of mine and i spoke to him and then we created kind of a barter thing where i don’t have to pay rent and i just have to create some create an artwork and then that pays off for like a year’s rent, you know? So

KG: Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so cool.

TS: Yeah, then I then I don’t have to worry about like not selling the artwork, but rather like, you know.

KG: Right. Right. Yeah. And so that enables this show space for upc up and coming artists of the region that that can then establish themselves in the art world.

TS: Absolutely. Yes.

KG: I mean, what a gift to the region, to the world. That’s that’s really, really awesome. so we have a tradition on the show here where. I’ve asked you a ton of questions. So now it’s your turn. You can ask me a question, ask our listeners a question. So what is the question of the week from you, Tsherin?

TS: I had my answer ahead of the question because when we were communicating, I didn’t know how much new you you knew about the region and also about the thing. And then it was really wonderful to understand, like you know, and share all of these things in step by step, but at the same time also. To ask you, like, have you had the opportunity to let’s say have this conversation with multiple different artists?

KG: Yeah, no. I think so, as you know, had Catherine Whitney on the show. She introduced us.

TS: Yes.

KG: I have a few friends who are art professors at a school here in Seattle. my sister’s an artist as well. I consider myself an artist as well. So have some exposure, but not in this context, and certainly not non-Western art as much. I think that that’s been the thing just in in researching and preparing for a conversation today is is exposure to non-Western art, to kind of the historical like Nepalese art and the the Thangka painting and and the different pieces that I’ve seen of yours which are amazingly gorgeous and beautiful and thought provoking and and so interesting. that has been a great exposure for me and something that. I wanna I think probably dig into a little bit more. which actually leads me a little bit to the next thing I want to talk about. So like I mentioned before, you currently have a show up at the Honolulu Museum of Art. So that goes through January of 2027. So if you’re in Honolulu, go check it out. do you have work up anywhere else? And then I believe that that show that’s up at the Honolulu Museum of Art is coming to Seattle. Is that accurate?

TS: Yes, yes. It’s coming to Seattle Asian Art Museum. Yes.

KG: Amazing. That is literally about five blocks from my house. So I’m so excited for that to happen. I will be there for sure. and so that’s in the spring?

TS: Okay, that’s great. Yeah. that starts in March. And I think it opens on March 4, 2027.

KG: Okay.

TS: So I’m supposed to be in Seattle on the fourth of March.

KG: All right. Well I look forward to that. I will be there. Is there anything else that you wanna share or plug or let folks know about you, about any of the work that you’re doing?

TS: Apart from that, like I think in September, on September 22, 2026, I’ll be in New York for The Armory Show that happens in New York every year. So it’s an art fair and I’m showing there for the first time. One another in the West Coast, another museum that I was always, always looking forward to show was the Seattle Art Museum.

KG: Yeah.

TS: it’s very exciting. And even though I lived in the Bay Area for almost like twenty two years, I have been to Seattle only once. So this time I I hope to yeah absorb more.

KG: Yeah. That’s so cool. Well, Tsherin, thank you so much for taking the time today. really appreciate you coming on the show

TS: Thank you.

KG: and thanks for all that you do.

TS: Thank you so much. And thank you for having me and giving me this opportunity.